It was definately hypnotism. It's the way Derren always does it - he shows someone a picture, tells them something random and what he tells them gives them clues.
i.e. for the fact that her dad was a builder, he could have said "I want you to *build* me an image of this person". It's just a less obvious form of hypnotism combined with Derren scaring the crap out of them so that they will believe anything they're told. Still not sure about the ball though.
Oh, and another point. No way was the show live!!! Just like Russian Roulette it was obvious that it had been pre-recorded and edited together. And I seriously doubt the phone calls from viewers were genuine either.
Of course it was obvious that the show wasn't live - he never said it was. At the end it said that they made sure all the students were OK
after filming
.
I phone calls were real - and were probably played over the top of the programme.
I did that glass/letters thingy and all I got was a noise up my chimney!
It's not hypnotism you fool, it's
psychological illusion
. As has been said. The power of unconscious suggestion.
Anybody who thinks it was a real séance, hypnotism or magic should be shot. Especially when Derren Brown explains the illusions he performs when he does them.
It's not a case of "buying" it (James Martin), it's a case of how well Derren Brown performs the illusion. And to be honest, I thought tonight's performance was slightly too obvious. But that doesn't take away from the fact that he is an excellent illusionist.
psychological illusion = hypnotism
Just cos he doesn't say "sleep" and wave his hands like a magician doesn't mean he didn't have the students in a state of semi-consciousness. Hypnotism can be more subtle than the stage shows we are most familiar with.
SP
Sput
CyberCD posted:
Just cos he doesn't say "sleep" and wave his hands like a magician doesn't mean he didn't have the students in a state of semi-consciousness.
Indeed. Any good lecturer, Luxie or Alldritt can do that within seconds.
No. Not at all.Hypnotism is placing somebody into hypnosis (funny that) - putting someone to a state of sleep where their actions can be controlled by instructions.
Derren Brown does not hypnotise people. He is able to suggest things to people unconsciously through the phrasing of words and subtle implanting of thoughts. This does not mean the people are unconscious or semi-conscious. He "reads minds" by studying the signals given by people when they speak and act. Derren Brown's art is about communication, and NOT hypnosis.
Last night's séance was completely based on the idea that he told people - including the viewers - to think of Jane, because of the way he told us to study the pictures. He even said that at the end for goodness sake! Another example is when the lady said that Jane's father was a builder - Derren Brown told her to "build" up a picture.
The only "hypnosis" during the show was to demonstrate the fact that somebody can think they didn't do anything when they did. Nobody else was hypnotisd because that wasn't the point of the show.
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Just cos he doesn't say "sleep" and wave his hands like a magician doesn't mean he didn't have the students in a state of semi-consciousness. Hypnotism can be more subtle than the stage shows we are most familiar with.
They were NOT semi-conscious or unconscious. They were completely conscious.
It really gets me that people don't understand the whole purpose of the show - to demonstrate the power of suggestibility. Especially when the guy explains the whole point of the show at the beginning and at the end of the programme!
Last night's séance was completely based on the idea that he told people - including the viewers - to think of Jane, because of the way he told us to study the pictures. He even said that at the end for goodness sake! Another example is when the lady said that Jane's father was a builder - Derren Brown told her to "build" up a picture.
Ok, we're not going to agree on whether it was hypnosis or not - i think our disagreements were also one of the main points of the show - to confuse people.
But regarding the choosing of Jane... the 12 pictures in a grid thing... the b/w and colour photos were arranged so that you almost had to find Jane. Like the maths puzzles when you think of a number, add 12, divide by etc etc and end up with the same number. People chose Jane because that was the most likely that you would come to if you followed Derren's instructions.
If we disagree that there was hypnosis involved in the seance, then what about the two people who went behind the curtain with the tambourine and paper. The first was obviously hypnotised (imho) while the second (i think) was hypnotised more subtly to throw us off the scent, meaning no 'sleep', just like he does later in the programme.
And with it being live/recorded - thinking about it I don't remember Derren saying it was live, but it was trailed as such, the Guardian today reviewed it as a live programme, and the format meant that it seemed live, even if it wasn't - which is a trick Derren quite often uses and I don't really understand why it helps if the show appears live.
Although some of the things he does are a little suspicious. There's one clip on his website where he calls a payphone, somebody picks it up and within ten seconds they fall asleep.
This isn't that shocking. The way he does it is by once again, bombarding the person with a lot of fast instruction and information for quite a while and then he slows it right down and calmly asks the person to relax and sleep. Believe it or not, some people would actually do as he asks.... Not everyone but as he himself points out that the most suggestible type of people are usually the kind of people who would pick up a ringing phone in a phonebox.
We covered suggestion similar to this in our 'making sense of the mind' roadshow.. basically in one example we showed how most people can be 'fooled' by suggestion even when we know we are being tested on it (a luxury the phonebox people did not have)
"I really love
Paris in the
the Springtime"
Some people would not see the mistake easily as the brain (subconsciously) runs ahead of itself so when people tap into how the brain works at this level, it is pretty amazing what can happen
Ok, we're not going to agree on whether it was hypnosis or not - i think our disagreements were also one of the main points of the show - to confuse people.
When Derren Brown goes through the trouble of explaining the point of the show - suggestibility - I'd have to disagree with that one as well, I'm afraid. Derren Brown is one of the few illusionists who carries out a trick and then explains how and why it was done. This is why I am bothering to reply to you once again - otherwise it is difficult debating something which really isn't debatable.
Quote:
But regarding the choosing of Jane... the 12 pictures in a grid thing... the b/w and colour photos were arranged so that you almost had to find Jane. Like the maths puzzles when you think of a number, add 12, divide by etc etc and end up with the same number. People chose Jane because that was the most likely that you would come to if you followed Derren's instructions.
Congratulations! Have you just realised that? That is the whole REASON the show was aired. It was the whole basis for the illusion! He even said during the programme why everyone should have chosen Jane! And you've just noticed?
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If we disagree that there was hypnosis involved in the seance, then what about the two people who went behind the curtain with the tambourine and paper. The first was obviously hypnotised (imho) while the second (i think) was hypnotised more subtly to throw us off the scent, meaning no 'sleep', just like he does later in the programme.
I tell you what. At least have the courtesy to read what I write before you come back at me. I have already explained (as did Derren during the show!) The hypnosis was carried out to demonstrate how someone can do something without noticing. The hypnosis was carried out to "prove" that she was telling the truth. This part of the show was an introduction to the main part which contained no hypnosis.
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And with it being live/recorded - thinking about it I don't remember Derren saying it was live, but it was trailed as such, the Guardian today reviewed it as a live programme, and the format meant that it seemed live, even if it wasn't - which is a trick Derren quite often uses and I don't really understand why it helps if the show appears live.
Yet again, it appears you didn't even watch the bloody thing. At the end, and TWICE, the announcer and a caption said how the contestants were dealt with after recording - "recording" the key word there. The live atmosphere encourages viewer participation in the "séance". The live elements were the playout of viewers' telephone calls over designated quiet bits left there during recording.
So in essence, I'd recommend that you establish certain facts and do a bit of research on Derren Brown before you declare the show was about hypnosis.
I'm still wondering about the ball. Why did it move? It's possible that there was some technological trickery involved or that Derren used his powers of suggestion to make one of the students pick it up. While they were in the dark it really would not have been possible to see anyone touching it. The same could apply for the bell and the trophy I suppose.
